Giving Second Life Models the power of knowledge
“Maybe Starwalkers is just here to give Nave his personal page to attack, critisize, belittle, and spout off like a bad case of verbal diarrhea. That’s probably closer to the truth.”
it is the truth and EXACTLY what you’re doing lol, not me, or anyone else here that I’ve noticed. Am I confused by what you wrote? Seems like you have some very personal, anger management issues to me. Therapy can help with that.
StarWalkers is a vitally useful group to 100s of new and established, designers, agency owners, models, photographers and people responsible for getting the word out on modeling, and fashion, events. We don’t discriminate against anyone and it’s free. When we started the StarWalkers 2010 group it was to make sure that these services had some continuity for everyone. Sabine, Anabella, Herradura and I succeeded nicely. If you don’t need StarWalkers you can free up a groupspace.
So lol, if you have personal issues with me, what I do in SL (you haven’t got a clue btw), how I do it (you really haven’t got a clue), who I do it with (lots of fun people), where I do it (you haven’t got a clue unless you’re tracking me), or anything else that you want to chat with me about feel free to IM me in-world. Of course you can just continue to do what you claim I do in here.
I think you’re jealous of me.
Just curious asked, “When did Starwalkers become an agency?
I said previously, “As far as I am concerned StarWalkers is the modeling and fashion’s community bulletin board that announcements get stuck up on and nothing more”
When did Starwalkers become an agency? I thought it was a model group? Is Starwalkers putting on shows now? Has the great Nave Fall decided to put his money where his mouth is and actually pony up a show so that he can be subject to the critique he so lavishly dishes out onto others? How exciting!!!!!
I can’t wait for that show!!!!!!! Post the date and time here Nave so we can all see how much you actually know about modeling and putting on shows and all that there good stuff.
Or maybe not? Maybe Starwalkers is just here to give Nave his personal page to attack, critisize, belittle, and spout off like a bad case of verbal diarrhea. That’s probably closer to the truth.
As Nave likes to spew so often, when checking out an “agency” check who the owners are, what they have done, what their credentials are.
From what I can tell, Nave has ZERO cred. Never been a model, never put on a show, never did a blessed thing except to stick his nose up other ppl’s butts. Yup, thats Nave’s talent.Brown-nosing.Riding other people’s coattails. The other owners in this group are credited models, Nave just likes to hang around and try to look important, but the truth is, if he were to leave, no one would notice. Oh yes, and repeating what -others- have told him about modeling and making it sound like he thought it up.
Hey Nave, where is your book? Been about a year you have been spouting off about that huh? What’s wrong? Too much actual work to copy and paste what everyone else has told you?
For the record.
I, personally, won’t be checking up on the business practices, or the agreements that are made with a model by any agency that advertises anything on StarWalkers. I agree with Kay and Sabine 100% that models deserve to be paid for their work. But any agreement between a model and an agency owner is a COMPLETELY confidential and private matter and not subject to any oversight from the StarWalkers group.
I am not the captain of the SL modeling world hallguards no matter what some of you might think of me. I didn’t join SL spend my time listening to people whine that they weren’t paid for a show, a shoot or anything else. It’s not fun and I have enough going on without adding this responsibility too…………..
As far as I am concerned StarWalkers is the modeling and fashion’s community bulletin board that announcements get stuck up on and nothing more. It’s very open and we’ve had very few abuses of our charter.
If any of you have nothing else to with your time in SL and want to “pay if forward” and take on that task I’ll be happy to create a StarWalker’s just title for you if that makes you feel important.
Too bad Donnatella left this would have been perfect for her to do
No need for a snarky model, Nave Fall is enough for any group. He’s got a tail and everything.
So Starwankers is telling ggecny owners how to run their agencies now?
Who chex up to see if they complie with your 500L demand or do you just wait for a snarky model to snitch?
To Not a Micah fangirl,
Please stick to the subject, which is your “comments about StarWalkers recent decision”.
Thank you for respecting the topic in advance.
i just want say that im all agree with all what it was said. Modelling is more fun and passion than bisness mony money it s not evry thing.
models are not only dolls but lot of models are ready to work and help new small disgners who can’t afford all thoses prices . models all are enough intellegent to makes decisions them selves . and makes accords with disgners or fashion shows makers.
Starwalkers as i belive it s a channell where all peoples who work in the fashion industry can talk and in my view it have to respect and do no more than that .
have agreat day
ohhhhhhhhhhhh yeah you go grrrrrrrl
Some people should be restrained from doing shows no matter how badly they want to or how much they are willing to pay. There was a paid show this past weekend that I had to wonder about.
Kay Fairey said “They work their way up to eventually the time when they feel they are ready for a show. Then it will be some investment for them but that is what keeps the status of the shows and shows become a brand status tool for designers who wish to establish some kind of a brand image and awareness.”
Micah Kanto paid for a show. A Boulevard show. Great agency to do a show with, great staff , models and location. So far so good. so Micah Kanto, the FAMOUS, SL haute couture fashion designer doncha know, chose the agency well. Then Micah did “his/its/her” show this past weekend pretending to be a real designer with such badly made, pretend copies of McQueen designs that it would have made McQueen (god rest his soul) slap him silly. What a joke.
No matter how much Micah paid to Boulevard for that show it wasn’t enough to validate his workmanship which was right out there for everyone who bothered to look. The stuff that was walked was crap and no matter how good the models were, and Boulevard’s models are excellent, the garbage they were made to wear was a hilarious, self-serving joke. Micah couldn’t blend a texture to save his mother’s life and doesn’t care to learn how to obviously.
I felt sorry for the models in that show who had to desperately try to style his junk and make it look like something. What was even funnier was listening to some of the audience “emoting” and raving about how gorgeous the stuff was. Suck ups.
No matter what he paid it wasn’t enough for the time he wasted with his diva antics and snits. Some designers egos defy description.
To be more clear, my fee examples in my previous post here were just that…examples…demonstrating, or trying to, how things should be divided up.
Anyways…here are my thoughts, more brief and summarized…
+ A model has the right to decide for themselves if they want to be paid or not, whether for a show, store position, photo shoot, etc and choose job offers accordingly.
+ An agency, photographer, designer, etc has the right to choose whether to pay models and staff or not.
+ A designer has the right to do free shows only if they choose, or pay as much money as possible for one.
These are all personal rights that everyone has in SL and a lot in RL. Just because you do things one way and set high standards and produce quality shows and pay models tremendous amounts of money, doesn’t mean every agency or designer or model or photographer or any other fashion/model member of this industry has to and to be completely blunt, unless you own SL yourself and set up certain standards for people in order to be members…it’s not for you to decide who does what outside of your business. Just like it’s not for me to decide how another agency should be ran…or what they should be paying or not paying…or what a designer sells their clothing for.
Let’s move on to my personal opinions, which differ from above, that are plain and simple facts.
+ I believe that all models should be paid in some form or another. My agency pays models money in addition to clothing/accessories that they receive for a show or event.
+ I believe that a person brand new to modeling should work some for free, like an intern, to get experience and training.
+ I believe that all designers should pay for shows they do. It costs a bit to put together an impressive show…time and money that people invest to pull it off. If I’m going to put together a show for a designer…while I love the work..I do want to be paid for it and so does my staff.
+ I also believe in the facts I stated above…about personal rights with individuals and businesses alike. If a model is not looking to be paid for work they do, then there are plenty of opportunities out there. If a model wants pay, then there are still plenty of opportunities. If an agency doesn’t want to charge designers for shows, well..so what?
Look at how many designers there are in SL. Then look at how many of those designers work with more than one agency. Most of them do. They work with agencies that are a fit for them, whether it’s financially, or they love the staff, or the creativity of the show or how well the agency markets their product…or a mixture of those and more. If every agency was alike or charged the same or had the same practices, it wouldn’t be good.
Again, in my honest opinion, everyone needs to focus on their own agency (for those that own or help run them). If you are producing high quality shows, paying your models well, treating staff/models like people and fairly/etc, if you are running everything honestly and marketing your clients products to the best of your abilities and they are happy…then guess what?
You’re setting a standard!!!!
Designers won’t want to go to an agency that does things crappy if they can go to another agency that delivers the full package and then some. Models won’t want to work for agencies that treat them like crap or make them work hard for nothing or where they aren’t appreciated or have any work. The list goes on.
Other agencies will take note of the high standards your agency has and will want to improve, or they’ll eventually die out like so many do. But…it’s their choice.
This is SL. We are here to have fun, enjoy all it has to offer, make new friends, gain new experiences. What happened to “enjoying YOUR SL”. Kay Fairey, and Kay, you know I love ya and no disrespect here, can run her agency or help run any agency she works with the way she or they wants. Sabine can do the same. I can run mine the way I want. Frolic can run his the way he wants. The list goes on.
Fashion and shows, models, etc don’t need to be ran like the government and regulated. Businesses and models need to be as diverse and creative as the fashion industry. Just because I or you, or someone else may not agree with a business practice, doesn’t make it our business or right to try and impose changes.
Enough from me.
Mohna Lisa Couture Manager
I also agree with Sabine and Kay 100% this is fantastic to see things finally moving into a better and fairer climate for all.
Dolce as for pricing your shows so that you CAN pay the models and everyone, do a spreadsheet, list everyone who needs to be paid and how much, this will tell you how much it will cost for you to produce the show, once that’s done you have a final figure that needs to be charged to the designer, either a single designer or split between 2 or more. That way you know what you need to produce the show, everyone is paid and your not out of pocket :)
I agree with Kay and Sabine 110%.
Thank you ladies for being Model Advocates.
Both of you have done so much for Models in the Fashion Industry and I applaud you.
Bravo!!! Thank You.
I support Sabine’s effort 100%. She is not saying all shows have to pay 500L per model per show. She is merely saying a 500L minimum will be imposed to use this group to “advertise”. She is trying to infuse some change in the industry and in the minds of the models and agency owners and we all know that’s not an easy task to do.
And on Dolce’s point, if you are only charging an amount that will not even allow you to pay your models decently, then that price itself is not right? When I negotiate for shows, I consider myself representing the models. At least, I thought that was what the meaning of the word AGENCY. So I don’t think it is right that I take it out on my models if I failed to negotiate a decent deal.
And also, this is not about money per se. In other words, do I “need” that 500L to survive? Or am I doing this all for money? No. But a show should NOT be for all and every designers in the first place. It’s a way of promotion and there are many cheaper ways for start up designers. They work their way up to eventually the time when they feel they are ready for a show. Then it will be some investment for them but that is what keeps the status of the shows and shows become a brand status tool for designers who wish to establish some kind of a brand image and awareness.
If everybody can do shows. what will be the value of shows?
SL economy is similar to RL in the dynamics of how it evolves. Although SL modeling is not the same as RL modeling in many ways, at least the dynamics of economy does follow similar trends. In that case, we should look at the economics of fashion show promotion in RL. Does everybody do shows? Do shows have to be catered so that every designer can do shows? My answer to this is NO.
On another point, are advertising free in RL? NO. It isn’t free in SL either. We need to spend some money to advertise and in RL, this ad cost will be included in the show prices. And I don’t think this is something designers can complain because if they expect us to pay so little to models and also pay out of our pockets to advertise too, I feel that would not be fair at all.
Recently, I see a lot of you here with the argument that all designers should be able to do shows. Well, that’s where I differ and that’s why I cannot agree with this argument as briefly stated.
I will be happy to discuss this in-world if any of you wish since I don’t want to write a novel here. I have already discussed this a lot and I think I have heard most of the opposite opinions. But I still hold to my opinion because I still think this is what we should do to keep the industry healthy.
And on this one, I can see that Sabine is trying to impose a change in the minds of ppl and as I said, that needs a “shock treatment”. So I say, I support move her entirely.
Sabine, your English is better than most who speak English as a first language. :))
Now for my opinion…
I strongly believe that ALL agencies should pay models for shows, however imposing a pay minimum requirement for agencies to pay models in order to advertise the show seems unfair in some light, both to the agency and designer(s).
Look at the amount of clothing a model may receive for a show and that itself, unless the designer sells really cheap clothing, equals to over L$500, a lot of times, per outfit.
Let’s not forget WHY agencies and models exist. It’s not for the money, at least not in SL, it is to help promote creators and designers alike in their latest designs and creations.
Yes, I am aware of how long it can take to style an outfit for a show and that the good models out there invest a lot of time and energy into that, but also think about how much time was invested into making that outfit or pair of shoes, or necklace. Think about all of the work that went into preparing it to be sold, getting photoshoots done, vendors up, marketing, etc.
This is not RL. Models here should not be in it for the money and should be willing to do a show for whether paid or free just because they love modeling and fashion and want to help promote creative works.
I believe that an agency should pay models according to how they are paid for the shows..and yes, that they SHOULD be paid.
Let’s use an example here. An agency charges a designer L$500 a show and has 4 designers for that show…so L$2,000.
The show has 6 models, plus the script writer, the MC, the cuer, the DJ, the photographer, etc. That L$2,000 needs to be split up someway among all of them.
I know most of you will be dropping your jaw at the L$500 per designer and rest assured, just an example. I believe that designers need to be charged for shows, models and staff need to be paid, but L$500 per model doesn’t always work out that way.
Point blank…if you’re an agency owner, you need to pay your staff and models. That should be the requirement for agencies to post in Starwalkers 2010, or anywhere really, unless it’s a non-profit show. Let the models decide on what they think is fair to be paid in their various agencies. If they don’t like it, they’ll either ask about it or leave.
Same with designers.
I think you all get my general view of this.
Best group for new infos about model, fashion, shows, bloggs… Love!
Hello StarWalkers 2010 and everyone else!
StarWalkers 2010 (formerly known as StarWalkers founded by Pat Young in ’09) is not a Model Agency, but a group for Models, and also for Designers and Fashionistas, Fashion Bloggers, Photographers ect. The Priority of the group is to be an informative plattform for models with castings, shows but also for fashion bloggers to post their blogs, Agencies to post their shows, Designers to post about their new releases/sales ect. Also, if you are an experienced model and want to post something about fashion, you can talk to the following moderators: Anabella Ravinelli, Sabine Blackburn and we will pass your request along or even give you the right to post notices (at least temporarily).
I would like to open the discussion about StarWalkers 2010 with the subject of paying models for regular shows at least 500L$/Show, else you cannot post the show in the StarWalkers group. This was a notice I posted recently in StarWalkers and there were many responses to this subject (positives and negatives). So please feel free to post your comments too about this subject.
(sorry for my bad english)
Have a nice day,
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